020. Create Sleep Routines for Kids While Traveling with Michelle Hansley

Kelly: [: 00:00:00

I'm your host, Kelly Tolede, and it's my mission to inspire you to live life to its fullest, travel with an open mind and heart, and let the world show you a new perspective. I'm so grateful you're here with us today, so let's dive right in. Happy exploring!

Hello everyone. Thank you so much for tuning in today. My name is Kelly Talladay and I am the host.

o stay tuned. Stick with the [: 00:01:00

And it is just such a goodie of an episode that I just wanted to come on and say, there was some minor, minor, minor technical difficulties, and just to push through with the audio, because there is just so much value that Michelle gives us in this episode that I want to make sure that you push through and listen to the whole thing, because I am just so excited to share all of this knowledge and all this information with you today.

it on your upcoming holiday [: 00:02:00

All right. See you on the other side.

Kelly: All right, here we go. Welcome to the Transform with Travel podcast. I'm so excited to have Michelle here with us today, Michelle Hansley. She is a certified sleep consultant through the Center for Pediatric Sleep Management. After going on her own sleep journey with her two daughters over seven years ago, Michelle realized the importance of sleep and children for their development, temperament, and overall wellbeing.

And she began to develop a passion for healthy sleep habits. Michelle launched her business, Make Sleep Sweet, three years ago and supports families all over the country through her virtual services. And so I'm so excited to have you here today. I'm

Michelle: so glad to be here and how, you know, we've connected and grown together.

Yeah. It's just great to be joining you on this journey. Yeah. Thank you. So

Kelly: everyone listening, Michelle and I have known each other for two or three years now. We're part of the same mom's group in the suburb that we. are living in, where our families are growing up, and you are just such a, connector for people.

Like, [: 00:03:00

Michelle: Any opportunity to help other moms, you know, when we're all In the same boat.

In the throes of it. I mean, I'm so grateful for our community and that support

Kelly: we get. Yeah, and I think it really lends itself to how you've kind of fallen into this line of work of helping families, and I know we've had conversations with my daughter's sleep and you've helped us navigate some challenges with our sleep, so I'm really excited to share this with everyone.

Michelle: So, yeah, what I was going to say is, kind of like you said, it's almost just grown organically, you know? You know? After... The birth of my first daughter, she's seven now I was familiar with BabyWise, that was what my sister in law used, it worked great for her son, so my husband and I read through the book, decided to give it a try, and You know, I found myself, when she was young, dangling keys in her face to try to keep her awake till a nap time, and it just didn't feel right for me.

It didn't feel good, and she [: 00:04:00

I knew how beneficial, not only it was for babies, but for myself. I mean, I need to get healthy, good sleep to be able to thrive as a mom also. So yeah, I, I just looked into two different ways and I think that's when I realized. And I, I always coach my family, so let them know there's no one size fits all approach.

So I became passionate about it. I kept researching it and you know, I had my second daughter who's now four and I implemented some of the things I had learned along the way with her. Family reached out and friends reached out and they said, Hey, I have a neighbor and she has some questions on sleep. And it just kind of really, again, grew organically through being able to help other families.

Yeah,

f my daughter doesn't have a [: 00:05:00

And so you mentioned how you got involved with. Learning more about sleep when your daughters were growing up. At what stage was there like a turning point? I'm going to make this into a business or I'm going to become certified or do whatever. Certifications you needed to do at what stage were you like, this is the moment for me.

I

Michelle: mean, I was looking to get back into something for myself. I had been staying home with my girls and I wanted to get back into helping contribute financially so my husband could be home a little bit more with our family also. And it was just something I was so passionate about. At that time, I hadn't thought of turning it into a business, but I kind of made a list of things I love and helping families.

connected with other people. [: 00:06:00

I always say I got into it because of the healthy sleep habits and children, but the amount that comes, the reward that comes out from hearing from moms, you know, I feel like I lost a part of myself because I can't get to the gym anymore. I'm holding my baby all day, hoping they'll nap. Then they start sleeping during the day and the mom can pick up a yoga class or do a workout in her garage and Families can get to the beach together because they have more of a routine, you know It's just so much more rewarding than I ever thought sure.

It's I

at makes it feel like you're [: 00:07:00

So for everyone who that's listening doesn't know what sleep training is or they've heard The super, you know negative scary things about sleep training Can you give a little bit of background of what sleep training is for you

Michelle: specifically?

Absolutely, and I always feel sleep consultants get a bad rap Sometimes a lot of times when people hear sleep training They associate it with crying it out and they assume they'll have to let their child cry it out in order for them to sleep. I will say cry it out is also known as extinction and it is a method of sleep training, but I don't think people realize how many methods there are.

So essentially sleep training is teaching a child to fall asleep independently. And as adults, we get tired, we get into bed and we fall asleep. And we don't think of independent sleep as a skill that has to be learned. So we teach our children how to crawl. We teach them how to talk and eat. But we don't realize that independent sleep is also a skill.

and an opportunity to learn [: 00:08:00

There are so many different methods to go about doing that Some are more hands on and I do think it's important to find what works well for your family. I think that's the benefit of working with a sleep consultant because they can kind of tailor it a little bit more to Your needs and your family dynamic.

But yeah, it's again giving your children new skills

Kelly: Yeah, I I remember when I first heard about Sleep training and somebody, I think I saw it on Instagram, like, it's about teaching your kids the independent skills of how to fall asleep independently. And I'm like, okay, that's, we teach our kids how to walk, we teach them how to feed themselves, we teach them how to talk we do all these things for their development.

Right. But then we just.[: 00:09:00

And so, like you said, there are a lot of different methods for sleep training and it doesn't have to be just cry it out. There's a lot of ways to do it in a gentle way and in a way that the baby feels supported in a way that you feel supported. So I love that you explain that in that way. So the reason why we have Michelle here on a travel podcast is because a lot of our listeners are families.

follow his nap is normally at: 1230

I know you just supported a family through a 30 hour travel time, we'll get to that in a second. But I would love to hear just your own thoughts about traveling on your own as a family, like what does it mean [00:10:00] for you to be able to show your kids, I know you do a lot of adventures with your

Michelle: girls.

We are Team Road Trip.

I love road trips. We've driven North Carolina, Georgia, Tennessee I personally just love not having to be on a schedule. I do feel like our lives at home are so schedule based to just be able to pack up and go and see where the adventure takes us has been amazing. You know, freeing for me number one tip I can do to give is just to be flexible and to set realistic expectations.

I've listened to a couple of your podcasts also, and you've said, you know, you just have to sometimes go with the flow and you can come up with a plan, but if there's one thing I've learned in motherhood, it's, you know, you have a perfect plan and then a child wakes up sick or something happens at work.

So again, I think the flexibility you need in daily lives has to also carry over in travel. Yeah,

Kelly: absolutely. And what have you found or learned with traveling with your girls, like seeing the world through their eyes? What has that done for you as a family, you think?

Michelle: [: 00:11:00

You know, even the little things that we take for granted when the girls are seeing things for the very first time. And that excitement in their eyes definitely helps make it more exciting for us and the bonding experience of doing these trips together as a family of four. Yeah, taking adventures together definitely brings us closer together.

Yeah,

Kelly: you guys inspire me so much because we've done like some big flights, but we haven't done a super long haul road trip with the girls yet. And mine, mine are like, I'm maybe like four years behind you in the process of my two girls ages, but yeah, I love seeing where you guys go and just how it's like, it's so possible to take Your family.

On the road with you or to adventure with you.

Michelle: What did we do? Our last like, the trip I'm most proud of it was President's Day weekend. We hadn't really done much traveling, like, it was earlier this year. And I told my husband, the girls have been asking to see snow. I was like, let's just pack up the car and drive until we see snow.

school. Let's do it. And we [: 00:12:00

We pulled over, got a hotel there, and it was, it was just magical, the videos I have of the girls just, you know, it wasn't a downpour, but for our South Florida girls, it was snowing. And

Kelly: it's really not that far either, I mean it's, it's far, what, 14 hour drive or something like that.

Michelle: Yep, and we broke it up, but yeah, just again, the, Just being able to go, it was, yeah, just freeing and we loved it.

That's awesome.

r nap times, let alone going [: 00:13:00

I'm probably going to lean on you. This is going to be like a personal sleep consultant episode here of going a 12 hour time difference, a 17 hour time difference. So what would you say to families who are looking at where they're going and there is going to be a time change? What are some pieces of advice that you can give to someone?

Yeah,

Michelle: I think again, with that one fits all approach, I think it's important to look at the age of your kids. The time difference you are traveling to, how long you're going to be there. You know, if we were going to Tennessee for two days, would it be worth changing the whole schedule or just kind of keeping them on our schedule and staying up a little later, earlier those two days?

And how many times they're napping? You know, for the most part I love the idea, and I don't know if you do this with traveling, but just getting grounded when you get to a new place and getting sunlight. So when you land or you arrive in your new destination and there is a time change. Find a place to just take off your shoes, stand in the ground and soak up the sunlight.

h our internal clock and our [: 00:14:00

So if it would look like the time they're going to sleep ends up later than it is at home, give them some cat naps during the day to push them through to the new bedtime. I usually say the first day you're there is kind of like just a day to get your body Acclimated. So give a nap when they don't normally nap if they need to stay up later Or if the based on the time zone, they'll be falling asleep earlier Hold off on a nap and take them to a park and let them have a longer wait time to tire them out to get to bed so I do think the first day is kind of just Falling into a new rhythm and then the second day you're there waking up at the time you want to set the standard for for The rest of your trip and getting right into the new time zone.

Okay,

Kelly: I like [: 00:15:00

Exactly. And would that be the same if you were, say, going to Europe or you were going to Asia or something like that? You would do the exact

Michelle: same thing. Exact same thing. And again. Being as flexible as you need to on the plane rides and the first day you're there just getting acclimated But I do think there is something to be said with getting grounded and soaking up the sunlight during the day as well Yeah,

Kelly: absolutely.

There's actually a big body of research around the UV and the blue light and how the spectrum of the colors Change throughout the day and so if the colors coming off Through the sky and through the Sun are changing at from noon to mid late afternoon And at night and so the more that you can get out during those times and let like no sunglasses.

No, nothing just Yes. [: 00:16:00

Michelle: Right. And as the sun starts to set the body naturally starts to relax. And yeah,

Kelly: so. Cool. Yes. So for those really long we've Travel days, whether it's a road trip or you had a client that went all the way, you know, 30 plus hours of travel time. There's a lot of naps that are potentially being missed or delayed or you have to sleep overnight on a plane What do you say?

Let's say for a baby Nine to twelve months. Let's just say like a late infant. What would you say for something like that?

opportunities but again with [: 00:17:00

They feed off of that, they know, and the more stressed you get, the less likely it will be for them to nap. So, I think you try your best. You have the space, you have the opportunities. And you walk them around for 30 minutes and they don't end up falling asleep. Give them a snack, let them play and reset again 20 minutes later and try.

Same with on a plane. And that's, I have a quote that my client sent me just before we got on. They just finished a two week trip. They had 30 hours of travel between flights, layovers, nine different planes. And I was going to read what she wrote because this was something I told her, you know, So again, to be flexible and she said on shorter flights, I didn't force him to nap because it would just upset him when you're trying to force a child to fall asleep.

e of their cues, but if it's [: 00:18:00

Kelly: think for someone like me who's very regimented, I have my nap schedule, we have to be home by certain times, traveling definitely threw me for a loop, especially with my first daughter.

I think with the second, I know because of historical evidence from my first, like she's going to be fine if she hasn't totally done her hours or her, you know, the exact time for sleeping. But I do really like that, offering the opportunities to sleep, maybe having a little cover so it's a little darker or.

They have a little portable sound machine. I love those. Yeah. I was definitely going to ask you about the products.

Michelle: We have a couple of those. We have one we plug into the car when we're taking road trips. We have them for the plane, for the stroller, so yes, the portable sound machines are perfect. And then one of the tips I also have is recreating bedtime as closely as possible so wherever you're staying.

a fan of technology, but it [: 00:19:00

We always have a cue book. So at the end of bedtime, we finish with the same book every night, or I. Tell families they could sing the same song. So again, recreating bedtime as closely as possible when you're either at a hotel or an Airbnb. If you have the option for children to have their own sleep space, that's a plus.

Typically, we stay in one bedroom hotels and we share beds, and it's the only time. The girls get to share a bed with us and they love that. It adds to the experience for us. Yes, we look forward to that time also. But we still have the sound machine, the hatch light. We still read the books. So they still know, hey, we're in a hotel and you're sharing a bed with us, but we're doing this routine and it's.

It's time for bed. Yeah, so

s a bottle and I'll sing the [: 00:20:00

And so it's really, it's so, is really powerful to have within that flexibility, you have the same routines and structures. And so you mentioned a sound machine, you mentioned like a hatch, a light machine. Are there any other products that you like to bring with you to help? Maybe I know your daughters are older now, but.

For families with babies, are there any products that you recommend with traveling? We

Michelle: did a pack and play when they were younger so they could have a safe sleep space. There are so many products out there. There are slumber pods, there are blackout, like, travel curtains

I think it's easy to get caught up in all of the products.

n a plane, you know, you have[: 00:21:00

So there are definitely products out there and I would tell families to do their own research. I personally. Keep it as simple as possible. So, you know, a sound machine doesn't take up much space, the hatch light, if they have a stuffy they love, and then a couple of those cue books.

Kelly: Yeah, that's, that's really an interesting point because I'm now, as you're talking, I'm thinking about how much stress I've had.

having to pack the slumber pod and then the blackout curtains or then I'd bring garbage bags instead of the blackout curtains which are all very awesome products to have like the slumber pod is an amazing tool for those who don't know what a slumber pod is it's basically like a like a blackout tent that you could put over and pack and play if you're using the same hotel room as your baby that way it's this dark safe space for them.

and everything and a lot of [: 00:22:00

We think they won't sleep if they don't have XYZ, and like you just said, if they can fall asleep independently, they're going to be able to do it outside of their environment. It might be a little wonky, maybe?

Michelle: Right, but I also say, you're in a new space, in a new time. It's going to be wonky whether you have those products or not.

I always like to. Think of my parents, you know, we would go on trips and they didn't have all of these things and they made it work. So again, I think it's easy to get caught up in all the products which almost adds to the stress, right? Because then it's more stuff to pack, more stuff to find. So I think again, if you can get into a little bit of a, more of a go with the flow mentality and You know, give it a couple of nights for them to adjust and, yeah, I think what you do the first night kind of sets the standard for the rest, so if you, if they're just gonna pack and play the first night, then they'll know to expect that for the rest of the trip.

Right.

aving the, getting grounded, [: 00:23:00

Michelle: recreating bedtime recreating bed. Yes, and then with the getting flexible the first day Also kind of carries in as far as naps go so offering having a space for naps.

So if you're sightseeing at museums, you know always having the stroller or a carrier as an option for a nap even honestly, we go to sea world for the day and We still bring a double stroller because my seven year old, some days we'll have late nights when we're traveling and she gets exhausted. So she doesn't usually fall asleep, but she enjoys having just that downtime where we'll get a snack and she just gets to sit while we walk a little bit having some downtime, which.

vity a day. You know, I hear [: 00:24:00

So just remembering that it's exciting things, but it can be very overstimulating to younger children. And it's okay to, you know, go to Disney and then hang out at your hotel pool and order room service and have some time to wind down in between. So I like the idea of, again, one big activity a day and then maybe some smaller sightseeing where they can relax in the stroller.

Kelly: Yeah, I think that's really powerful because I'm definitely the type of traveler where I'm like, I have an itinerary at 9am we're doing this, at 10am we're doing this, and I've had to really... Loosen the grips of control, especially with kids, but my husband is much more of a let's just hang by the pool all day kind of traveler so we get like Sometimes he gets mad at how much i'm trying to stuff into the day Then I get mad at how much how little he's trying to do in the day But we were just talking about this this weekend On saturday both saturday and sunday saturday.

We went to a [: 00:25:00

He's like, this is what we're gonna do when we go away. I was like, okay. He's like, repeat after me. This is what we're gonna do because when even we get overwhelmed, we're in a new environment. There's new sounds, new foods. New everything. Imagine what's happening to them, you know?

Michelle: Yes. And that's what I said, you know, as parents, we want them to see it all.

We wanna see it all. But I do think there's value in remembering that it's a totally different experience for our children, and it is easy for them to get overwhelmed and overstimulated. So keeping that in mind. Okay. Cool. All right. Any, any other, and the last one, kind of what we talked about is that they feed off your energy, right?

think if you a lot of times [: 00:26:00

They might get worked up and then they do get worked up. It's not as It's just frustrating if you have those expectations and you know it could happen. But yeah, I like to say what happens when traveling stays when traveling. So as soon as you get home, just getting right back into your normal routine and time and yeah, going right back into it.

That was actually

Kelly: what I was going to ask is because that's the one thing I'm really nervous about is we're going away for five weeks. It's a completely, it's a 12 hour time difference and I remember we came back home a couple years ago with my oldest and it took her a really long time to kind of get back into it.

t into the sun, and the next [: 00:27:00

Michelle: and go right back into it. I, I think just in conversations we've had prior, you've heard me say so many times, stay consistent, right?

That's the biggest advice I can give. So, yes, when you get back, get right back into it. But also know when I work with a family the package I offer is a two week package because I tell people if I, if I had a three day package, you wouldn't always see the results you're looking for. So I think families get back and then day two, their children aren't perfectly adjusted to the new schedule and they start to get frustrated.

But just remembering it takes time to shift habits, especially if you're there for five weeks, their habits will shift. So staying consistent with it when you get back and reminding them, you know, we, we're home, this is what we do when we're home and we're sticking with it and just giving that their bodies that time to adjust back and, you know, sometimes on travel.

s soon as you get home, it's [: 00:28:00

Kelly: Moving forward.

That's really, that's really good advice because that's one thing I'm really nervous about is the, the back, the backlash of coming home from all of it. We're going to have two calls. One before and

Michelle: one after. Yes,

Kelly: 100%. And so do you, do you, I know you had a client that was, you were helping her with her big travels.

Is that something that you do see a lot? Is people engaging you in, like when they're going away or, so when this episode airs it's going to be around the holiday season. Yeah. And so do you see a lot of that? Like I'm going to my. In laws house, and they don't respect our sleep boundaries, or they don't have the same

Michelle: environment.

Yes, absolutely. You know, or I've heard people say, my husband and I went away for a week, and the babysitter we were with, you know, my mom watched him and slept with him the whole time. So again, just remembering. That, because then I've had, so now I have to sleep with him because my mom slept with him and he won't sleep.

t that habit, it gets harder [: 00:29:00

And say, hey, we've worked really hard to get him sleeping the way he is and it's going to hurt us if you can't respect those boundaries. Be honest. Have those conversations. And then, not to over commit. You know, if there's a party and it's going to keep my girls up, I have to weigh what we have going on the next day.

Is it worth it? They can hang sometimes at night, but it makes for a miserable next day and, you know, we don't overcommit around the holidays. So, yeah, I would say. for yourself knowing what boundaries you want to set and keeping firm with those for your family. Yeah,

ey did things different with [: 00:30:00

I feel like it's a lot easier to say no to a babysitter or a nanny or Something like that, but with family it could

Michelle: be really tricky and I think that's where you have to weigh it You know if you're gonna be there for a couple of days Then let them throw off their sleep for a couple of days If you're going somewhere for two weeks, it might not be worth it to have their sleep thrown off for two weeks again, I personally know if we're traveling and my kids aren't sleeping well I'm not going to enjoy the trip as much either if I'm not getting a good night's sleep.

So I do like to set those boundaries and you can see how it goes. And I always, always, always take one day at a time. While traveling, while working with a family, all the time I have people say, what if my child's up all night crying? What if they don't sleep? What if they do this? And I'm like, you can't answer every what if question up front.

take it a day at a time and [: 00:31:00

Kelly: absolutely. I'm, yeah, that, I think that's something that's going to be really helpful for people in the long run, especially not just with traveling, but also just.

As they progress as parents is learning like where your boundaries are and what you're willing to compromise with and like you said sleep, especially when you're on a trip is so important even as a As a parent, when we were in Greece, Indie, my youngest, wasn't sleeping very well because she was teething.

She was not used to the time change whatsoever. It took her such a long time and we did not sleep very well that trip. And so everyone's like, wow, it looks so amazing. It looked incredible. And like it was, and also my eyes were going like sideways because I couldn't see straight. Like I was so tired. So I'm definitely going to take a lot of what you said into consideration for our next trip.

And I know I'll definitely be reaching out before. And something

oes get easier. So as babies [: 00:32:00

Kelly: Yeah. And everything does change. Because I often, I hear people ask a lot, what's the best time to travel with your baby? And part of me is like, when they're really, really, really young because all they do is sleep and then there's the other part of me that I, I was so anxious as a newborn mom that I don't know if that was the best time for me to travel.

Now I think my girls are at an age where they can do a lot more, Indy is only on one nap, there's a lot more flexibility in a day, but they're more mobile and they need more activity, so then there's more, you know, there's like, there's give and take, everyone thinks there's like this, Arbitrary age where things get easier.

I was just

You know, it's ups and downs [: 00:33:00

I don't know that traveling with children will ever just be a walk in the park, relaxing, you know, at least not until they're much older. But like then I think just accepting that and taking it for what it is and. Yeah. Giving them these experiences is so beneficial, but the more you, relaxed you can be, the more they'll feed off of that.

Yeah,

Kelly: I, I, there was like this Instagram trend and it was like what was it? It's not a vacation. It's a family trip. Yes. And it's just like, like you said, changing, adjusting your expectations, adjusting your mindset around it. If you think you're going to go away and be able to sit by the pool and sip a cocktail and read your book when you have a three year old with you, no, it's just.

wake up and say this is the [: 00:34:00

Tick. Anything else that happens after that is a bonus, but not trying to overcommit

Michelle: to yourself. Exactly. I love that. I think that's huge. Yeah, and you know, I do offer one hour sleep calls for clients I've worked with previously for families. So I do get, when the big trips come up, we, We come up with a plan, but it's more just giving them the confidence to know they've got it and talking through.

Because again, you could plan all day, but you never know what's going to happen. You take it day by day and yeah, I think it's really working on that confidence for the parents to know, I've got this, you know, I'm going to be flexible. I'm going to take it a day at a time and we'll get through it and we'll enjoy it.

And when we get home, we'll get right back on track. Yeah, I love it.

o number one is if you could [: 00:35:00

Michelle: This is so funny. This is probably gonna be the most random answer you've ever had but, Old Town in Kissimmee, it's like three hours away. I grew up going there with my dad and we started going there with my girls and it just has so many memories for me. So it's this little town and they have, you know, we take the girls to the magic show at night and they get caricatures and they make wax hands and they have a, Tie dye store and a leather store and it just is so nostalgic for me memories like with my dad growing up so if you ask jemma where her favorite place is she'll say old town And yeah, it just it's just for me such an easy trip now We know it we can hop in the car take a day trip there if we wanted to I know exactly what we need to pack.

We know the hotel we stay in it's just It's gotten to a point where we just love our time

And now the, the Brightline, [: 00:36:00

Michelle: know we have to check that out. Yeah. It gets you right there.

That'd be fun for the girls. Yeah. I mean, there's mini golf, there's an arcade. It's so, I mean, I tell people all the time, you have to check it out. That's awesome. Yeah.

Kelly: Okay. Number two is what's next on your bucket list?

Michelle: Bucket list next. Actually, Kenny and I are taking our first trip so this was on our bucket list that I'm taking off, we're just driving to Georgia, but it's the first trip we've had, just the two of us, since Reese was born, and she's four now.

Oh my god, wow. So it's been something we've talked about, you know, Mother's Day came, he's like, let's do this trip for Mother's Day, and then my birthday, let's do this trip for your birthday, and... We're finally doing it. It's his birthday coming up in October, so, yeah, it'll be the longest I've been without the girls since Reese was born, but we know they're in good hands and they're old enough now, so I'm super excited, yeah, for that trip.

Thank you. You did take off something on your bucket list. Yes, I know. It's huge.

Kelly: Okay, number three is, what's the biggest life lesson that you've learned while traveling?

feel like with you, I'm very [: 00:37:00

You know, planes will get delayed, things happen, and yeah, you just have to Accept it and

Kelly: take it for what it is. Yeah, that's like the hardest lesson for me. I feel like I have to keep learning that one over and over again. Absolutely. And then the last one is if you could give a piece of advice to a beginner traveler, beginner family wanting to get out there in the world, what would you

Michelle: say?

Just to go for it and to do what feels good for you. You know, not, To travel somewhere because other people are doing it. Find, you know, we love road trips. We love old town. We know what we enjoy and what works well for us. So yeah, find your own spots to make them your own. And yeah. Yeah. I

Kelly: love that.

aughter's having a hard time [: 00:38:00

Michelle: Absolutely. So I'll give you my website and social media. The website is makesleepsweet. com. My social media is at makesleepsweet by Michelle. I will say one thing I mentioned to you is. Social media does not bring me joy. It's not, I don't love spending my time coming up with content. So I don't post often, but you can shoot me a message that way.

I'll reach out. It's a great way to connect, but just don't be surprised if you don't see me posting very much. Well, thank you so

Kelly: much. I'm so excited for everyone to hear this episode and. For everyone listening, please rate and review if you've liked this episode connect with Michelle and share this with a friend I know everyone who is listening who's interested about sleep with children They have a friend who they can share this with everyone needs help.

ion adventure and excellence [: 00:39:00

This allows us to spread the word even more and continue to serve up weekly doses of adventure. As always, we'd love if you could share the episode with someone in your life who you think will benefit from this conversation. Thanks so much for listening. This is your reminder to get out there and keep on exploring.