012. Building Community through Arts, Wellness & Travel with Evan Snow

Evan Snow

[: 00:00:00

I'm your host, Kelly Tolliday, and it's my mission to inspire you to live life to its fullest, travel with an open mind and heart, and let the world show you a new perspective. I'm so grateful you're here with us today, so let's dive right in. Happy exploring!

Here we go. Yeah. Welcome Evan. Welcome to the transform with travel podcast. I'm so excited to have you here. You've been a part of my community and my circle for a couple of years now, and it's just been so awesome to like see each other grow past across the past couple of years and, you know, be able to see your journey.

cool. I remember when we had [: 00:01:00

I think we could spend this whole podcast talking about that Grease Retreat. We will definitely talk about the Grease Retreat. I'm glad to be here and glad to have you and glad to support. Yeah, awesome. First I just want to introduce you to those who are listening who don't know Mr.

Snow, Mr. Evan Snow. Evan is a local arts advocate, community builder, and creative entrepreneur, and one of the proudest Broward County natives you will ever meet. I like to call him Mr. 954, Mr. Broward County. That pride has led him to furthering the Choose 954 social movement and he created just a few short years ago to cultivate culture and community in his native Broward County.

eate new initiatives for our [: 00:02:00

And I've personally been a attendee. to Creative Zen and a speaker at Creative Zen and it's just been so cool to, like, see you in action and see the community building and the arts and culture advocacy in action. I'd love to just open up a little bit for you to, you know, just introduce yourself, like, where, where are you from?

Obviously, we know you're from Broward County, just for those who have read their, his book, you know that he is very proud to be a Broward County native, specifically from Coral Springs. And now you're running the show around Pompano Beach, Fort Lauderdale, all around. So I'd love for you to just share a little bit about you and, and we can go from there.

a, a regular guy from Coral [: 00:03:00

But ultimately, this really started for me with the love of food. I was considering moving to downtown Fort Lauderdale, I was exploring, this was in 2013 2014, I was exploring more chef inspired restaurants, farm to table, craft food, tapas style, before they were really popular, and I would take pictures of them and post them on this thing called Foursquare, it was like Vimeo, you know, before Yelp, it was really a thing, and my friends would say they like the places that Snow stops at, I go by my last name, not a big fan of my first name, So I got some inspiration, met a girl that told me about blogging at a training [00:04:00] seminar, and I started Snow Stops Food Blog, and long story short, food blogging got me invited to go to events like tastings and pairings, go into these events, got me to meet marketing and PR people that produce these events, and then meeting those people made me realize, well, I could probably do these events too, and then around this time, I got some inspiration from a social movement in Memphis, Tennessee, called Choose 901.

And I came back from a trip to Memphis to the World Championship Barbecue Festival during their month long Memphis in May. How fun! Where I saw the impact of the social movement and I came back and I started Choose954 to cultivate culture and community to keep people to know what the great things that are going on to make this a better place to live and not just a better place to vacation.

impact. You just have to have[: 00:05:00

And what I really love is a lot of people that I talk to talk about going to far flung places and... Getting a lot of transformation through that process, which you have also had. But what I really love is you almost doing the reverse and being like, actually, no, everyone come here. Come where I live.

Where I live is really cool. And like showcasing how amazing Broward County in South Florida really is. And one thing, one quote from your book that I really, really loved was that you've always had an affinity. You said, I always had an affinity for local independent businesses over big corporate chains.

I was beginning to witness how these local small businesses were the backbones of communities, and I wanted to further show and tell this story to my friends, families, and followers. It was becoming clear to me that the places I enjoyed visiting on my travels in cities like Austin, Nashville, and Asheville were a large part of what made the communities they were a part of great.

ounty. And I think that's so [: 00:06:00

As most people do after they graduate either high school or college or start their careers, but really like, it's like the recruitment of bringing awesome people back home. And so what I've really loved about that is, yeah, just showing like, you don't have to go to far flung places to realize how amazing it is to be where you are sometimes and just take a look around.

e doing this like starting a [: 00:07:00

You know, that road to what it is now, can you talk a little bit about that? Well, I can tell you on the tail end of that story, mindfulness helps. Yes. And forever grateful for Chloe for helping instill yoga, mindfulness, meditation, and my daily habits and routines and rituals to help me overcome.

roadblocks as they come up for everybody. You know, you would think if you were doing an art fair that bears the city's name, that was unlike anything else, doing an art fair inside of mansions that people could only get to on a boat, the city would want to get involved, the county would want to get involved, the business community would want to get involved.

prevented, presented a bunch [: 00:08:00

self funded passion projects, labors of loves as private citizens working to elevate our communities, artists and creatives and culture. But thankfully we're just very resourceful and determined individuals, myself and my business partner, Mr. Andrew Martineau. And we were dedicated to this mission that we set out for and.

You know, if we were going to, if we were going to wait for a check to come, we might still be waiting. So instead of what a lot of people do, either wait to get funding or they cry about not getting funding on all the typical things in the startup struggle, we just decided to put our head down and grind and, and persevere.

he deliverables done that we [: 00:09:00

We had our own agency, we have our own agency, so we did all of the things that normally you'd have to pay for, we did them ourselves. A, to absorb the cost, to get over that, those roadblocks and startup struggles of not having funding, but B, also to control the messaging and make sure that it was very specific, staying on brand, to our authentic and altruistic and genuine nature of, of community building.

Yeah, and so speaking that community building, I mean, not a lot of kids grow up thinking I'm gonna be a community builder and an arts advocate, right? And for those who read his book, Learning to Choose, you'll learn of your story growing up and kind of finding yourself and potentially just choosing different paths that that got you into trouble.

has all the potential in the [: 00:10:00

Also in the book you'll read that there's, I believe, seven pivotal moments in your life about choosing different paths, and one of those paths that really opened up your mind to this world of community and arts and culture was going to Wynwood and saying yes to an adventure with your friend down in Wynwood.

Which is about, for those that don't know, maybe like an hour, hour and a half south of where we live now. So it is still a bit, it's a bit of an adventure to get down to Miami. For those who live in Broward County, you know. It is an adventure to get down there. So could you talk a little bit about that, you know, saying yes to that and how that changed, changed the trajectory of your life?

It was: 2014

He, we were starting to hang out more at this time. And he goes, we're going to go to a place in Miami to go see this guy and I had no idea what he was referring to and The place was three points at Maps Backlot in Wynwood Which is one of the coolest like underground venues of all time and the guy was this Australian singer, Chet Faker Changed his name to Nick Murphy and then apparently changed it back to Chet Faker, but a legendary musician and going there, that was my first real foray into Wynwood and when it was in its very early raw underground stage and days, which is a memory, that I'll never forget because Wynwood, you know, it's changed a little bit, but it's still a cool place to be.

ple watching, the musicians, [: 00:12:00

And that initial taste really developed a yearning, a desire for wanting to just have more of these experiences. And that was in October. Of 2014 and then when December came around, now I'm starting to follow more of like the New Times and some of like the arts and culture sections and newspapers and magazines and stuff like that.

And I'm starting to hear more about this Art Basel thing, which I had never experienced. You know, it had been around at that point for about 12 years. But I was just a regular Johnny 9 to 5 guy, you know, going to the sports bar, watching the Hurricanes games and the Heat basketball games. So I posted on Facebook.

Art Basel? Nobody responded. [: 00:13:00

That changed my life, and I'm forever grateful for myself, for everybody that played a role in inspiring me and encouraging me to go and all these things and pursue my passions, because that change the course of my life. Yeah, absolutely. And just being able to say yes to what is like a seemingly small little mini adventure going down and seeing one DJ down in Wynwood and then it just sparked a revolution within you that led to all these other choices that you've had to make.

s of faith. Every single one [: 00:14:00

And that's really what traveling, whether it's traveling physically, geographically, or traveling like traversing the mind and traversing from one mindset to the next mindset or from one level of yourself to another level of yourself. So one of the things you talk a lot about of, and we've kind of touched on this was cementing Broward County as a premier arts and culture destination in the world.

Miami has cemented itself with Art Basel, with all the culture that was happening down there and now it was time for Broward County to really shine its light. And you talk about the art fairs that you've done, you've created Creative Zen Mornings for you know, just anyone really working professionals, artists, anyone to come in and get monthly doses of inspiration.

they wouldn't necessarily be [: 00:15:00

Sure. If artists don't have space to create and collaborate, be discovered, collected, shown, and all of the things that are. You know, needed to be a professional full time artist and they're gonna have to leave to go other places. And you should be able to be a full time professional artist in a place like Broward County where there is no shortage of money and disposable discretionary income.

You know, there's big houses, there's small houses, there's medium sized houses. All those houses have walls and all those walls need art. I just found, you know, it is a as you know, it is a place that's very big on hospitality and tourism, and art just was not really part of the master plan. So, I saw the success of art, and how art can transform communities in places like Wynwood in Miami, Soho.

You know, Bushwick, [: 00:16:00

You know, there, there was an art walk in, in Fat Village, which is now Flat Village, but that was getting tens of people, dozens of people, initially, yet the one in Wynwood was getting tens of thousands of people, and I really just felt... If we could show people through this visual storytelling thing, which at the time, Facebook live was just coming out and Facebook was really putting a lot of onus and giving a lot more reach to this Facebook live feature if you used it.

d it was really that initial [: 00:17:00

Maybe these artists do need support. You know, maybe my business can... Buy a piece of artwork from a local artist for their office instead of going to Ikea or Michael's and it was those initial just advocating and storytelling and promoting the arts that by the time we Gather enough social capital and enough traction that we were able to reach out to the mayor, Dean Trantellis mayor of Fort Lauderdale, supporter of the program, one of the first openly gay mayors of a major city who is a big fan of the arts, and say, hey, we want to do this thing.

nt spaces to make affordable [: 00:18:00

He is a tough cookie. Took him three minutes. Said, sure, I'll give you space. And thankfully, that was how we started Zero Empty Spaces. And it's led to 29 locations over the last four years. We're now in three states. We've had over 400 artists come through the program. We've changed hundreds of artists lives, thousands of times over.

and I never would have imagined when I set out with my cell phone and a hashtag that we'd be opening art studios in a former Burberry store next to Louis Vuitton in the largest mall in New England. Yeah, that's amazing. And, and speaking of being in a different state, you've opened up in Massachusetts and then you just recently took a trip for Dear Empty Spaces.

e to hear your experience. I [: 00:19:00

And kind of like storytelling how creatives, you know, play into the overall economy. So we were promoting that for a few years and then I found out. Just a year and a half ago about another niche called placemaking. Taking a place, a vacant space, plot of land, empty storefront, and, and, you know, doing good with it, making it a place.

So I connected with these leading placemaking organizations, Placemaking US, Placemaking X, and they're going on Trips where they go around certain parts of the country and the world Highlighting projects connecting resources to governments and different agencies different passionate community people similar to myself And a couple months ago I went on my first one with Ryan Smoor the initiator the organizer of placemaking us where we went On a train trip via Amtrak through the Rust Belt.

I flew into [: 00:20:00

So then he created another trip, which I just came back on, which was Placemaking Baja Weekend. And I'm gonna read, and this wasn't even all of it, of what we did, but it's essentially, you know, once again, connecting resources, highlighting and storytelling, successful projects, creating inspiration for future projects, bringing in more collaborators and more people with resources, like we have, we're a creative place making specialist, taking vacant spaces, making affordable working artist studios, the folks that we Thank you.

e our parks cost hundreds of [: 00:21:00

So, I'm going to read for you the post, it's on my Instagram, but this will just kind of summarize what this last trip involved. We crossed over to Tijuana and we went through Baja, California and Sonata, Mexico and Tijuana. We visited several placemaking interventions, which are activations and place experts in following locales.

This was including, but not limited to, they're not all mentioned. The University of basically of their architecture And they highlighted a project called Director of Mover La Ciudad Colectivo of architects that are activating vacant space in bus terminals and transit terminals. We visited some artist studios in Rique Ciopara in Austin Wizard.

lly divided by a border wall [: 00:22:00

We visited Carmelita Restaurant and Galleria by a walk in trained chef who's now bringing that flavor closer to Tijuana where they don't have as many great culinary options at that level. Visited Park La Amistad in Playa de Tijuana where there were people that were doing great things in the community on the border side that you never hear in the news.

Visited other parks pop up parks, pocket parks visited the lobster town of Puerto Nuevo which was one of the most amazing places and sunsets I've ever seen, and just a couple other stops, downtown Ensenada. And Valle de Guadalupe Wine Country, we visited a winery called Vino's Plata.

try, but how they're able to [: 00:23:00

With people that are interested in tapping into our network of resources with zero empty spaces and otherwise. I mean, absolutely. I, I just, it, to me, it's almost like the reverse of travel, where someone, a tourist, let's say, goes into a space, into a city, I want to take what I can get from this situation, I want to get all the food and the experience and everything, which is nothing wrong with that.

is and saying, wait, we want [: 00:24:00

And really, some of the top destinations in the world, people think. Like, let's say Berlin, they think Paris, they think Rome, they think Miami. You think of the arts, you think of the culture. So what you're doing is you're going in and you're supercharging these cities to become destinations. You're supercharging counties to become destinations that people want to go visit.

spend their economic dollar, boost, bolster the economy, and also be able to bolster the confidence of these artists that just might not have had a break, or a good enough break to be able to make it in. So, I love what you're doing. I think it's, so important for the travel industry, for all of these cities around the country and now the world.

r life and how these pivotal [: 00:25:00

And now, through placemaking and through Zero Empty Spaces, you're helping all these cities around the world. What was, one of your first few experiences of traveling where you're like, Wow, I'm, I'm changed by this, or I, like, you realized that travel was always going to be an important part of your life?

I waited to leave the country for the first time until I was 32 years old. I thought I was waiting for future Miss Snow to go on this international journey with. She still hasn't come yet, but maybe she's listening to this podcast. I went on Birthright to Israel, which is a free trip that if you're born Jewish, you get to go on.

me that I was thinking about [: 00:26:00

So that trip definitely, definitely opened my eyes To other cultures and seeing a completely different part of the world for my first time out of the country. Though, I'd probably say the first trip I did to Europe I went to the Netherlands and I went to Amsterdam and seeing the Van Gogh Museum and seeing their culture and how the bicycles just so smoothly interact and everybody's just going and sinking in unison.

't like to mention that just [: 00:27:00

That, that trip to Europe really then, cause, you know, Israel is a very unique place and has its own struggles and challenges, but Europe, I was like, wow, this is like, this is done at a very high level, you know, for hundreds of years, thousands of years. Food is obviously amazing. You know, the culture and like having the coffee and, and sitting around the, the city square, the town square, was just a really eye opening experience for me.

re in Seraphos that going to [: 00:28:00

And that obviously changed the course of my life. So I'm forever grateful for, for that trip. Yeah, so let's dive into that trip. I'd love that. So you went to Tulum with a friend. This is also a story that's in the book. Nonprofit. to choose as well. With a nonprofit that you're working with. And you were sitting on the beach and a friend turned to you and said So, we're flying the drone.

I have this little hobby making time lapse photos in the morning, get done with all my batteries. The non profit partner went to go explore some ruins of about a 30 minute walk, and her friend, who I just met the day before, he was 10 years younger than me. I was 35 at the time. He was 25 at the time. Nice kid.

the go a lot that trip. And [: 00:29:00

She was rather attractive, so I reached out to Chloe and said, Hey, Chloe while I'm in Tulum still, Hey, Chloe, could you put in a good word for me with this girl? And Chloe said, The next series of words that changed the course of my life... Come to yoga and long story short, the girl evaporated, the yoga stuck, one class led to two classes led to she was teaching samples and then as we as I'm developing a love for yoga and unlearning and, you know, mindfulness and all those [00:30:00] things.

I was spending more time with Chloe, and then that fortunately led to me making another great choice after choosing yoga, was choosing to engage Chloe in coaching to help me take my life and daily routines and habits and rituals and practices to the next level. She helped me develop my morning routine morning flow, which I do every single day.

And really those choices really helped elevate my life to the next level because to be your best, you have to feel your best so you could do your best and I was struggling. I mean, I have diabetes. I had just been recently diagnosed with diabetes at that time, actually at the beginning of the pandemic, so I needed to take my health and wellness a little bit more seriously.

oga and obviously for Chloe. [: 00:31:00

I walked away with that thinking, wow, of course the yoga was amazing, the sound healing was amazing, the workshops we did were great but really just that, like pure immersing ourselves in the Greek culture, I think everyone walked away being like, wow, how can I be more like this? How can I? It's amazing.

Slow down and enjoy everything. So, what was that like for you? I know it's not your first yoga retreat that you've been on. No, it was. Oh, it was. Okay, I thought you had gone down to Costa Rica before. Yeah? I went to, my friend owns a yoga retreat. Oh, I see. But we just stayed, I practiced at the yoga retreat.

east in our community. going [: 00:32:00

So as I've got to Athens to, before we went to the island of Seraphos, and I reconnected with a woman, an old friend who had, who had volunteered at my events she mentioned, and she is Greek, and her family lives in Greece, she had mentioned something to me about slow living. And the slow movement of really just how the Greeks value and nurture the land value and nurture each bite of food and really just how that ultimately helps them live more, you know, longer, enjoyable, fruitful lives is a concept and a theory.

people [: 00:33:00

Yeah. Oh yeah. Hundreds. Yeah. Yeah. So of the hundreds of islands, you know, this was one small, absolutely beautiful island where they did value the land, you know, where they're, they are very conscious, very thoughtful, very intentional. Very kind. But The, obviously, the Resort, Hotel Reses, was beautiful.

ed, but that, doesn't really [: 00:34:00

When we got off the ferry, getting in the van to go to the resort, I mentioned to Chloe a term that Debra Adele uses in the Yamas and the Niyamas which I just finished as part of a book club, where she talks about seeing things with new eyes, and similar to how. That first Wynwood experience was mind blowing and eye opening for me.

This first Greek island experience was equally as just mesmerizing, mind blowing. Just looking at the landscape, looking at how crystal clear and blue the water was. And it was, I think everybody's everybody's energy being heightened and elevated to be on this trip and experience Contributed a certain factor of the, like, the nostalgia of it.

to recreate, I never want to [: 00:35:00

How important Juan, as who's been outlined in this book extensively, has been. To my life and my development of my journey and you as well. And just to be there in that environment and soaking that all in, all in, and going there with the intention of improving myself, of furthering my yoga practice, this being my first proper yoga retreat, was really, I mean, a once in a lifetime experience.

I don't think I'll ever be able to top, but I'm willing to try. So I'm forever grateful for that experience, that time that we shared, the meals, the conversations, the connections the people we met. Pablo's, you know, everything was great, except for the pillows at the yoga that one time, but that's another story for another day.

g, so. Well, one, we just so [: 00:36:00

So he had his first book tour was international. So it was really awesome. Everyone could hear your story and get to know you a little bit better. And just hearing you talk about this experience, it reminds me of another quote in your book where you said, I'm, I'm always a seeker of experiences. And I really love.

That phrase, because not everyone is not, not everyone is seeking discomfort. Not everyone is seeking to get outside their comfort zone, and it's not out of disinterest. It's just more mainly out of fear. So could you just give everyone listening, a little bit of what goes into your mind when you get an opportunity to do something you've never done before?

es me that it is unfamiliar, [: 00:37:00

It's either gonna go one one of two ways I'm either gonna level up progress and move forward or it's not gonna work out if you want to call that Failing if you want to call that flirting you fail, but you learn But those you know taking the step taking the leap and Trying something that you've never tried before for me I don't want to say that that's what gives me my oxygen, because I think helping support people and level up people, especially those that are close to me in my community, that's really what gives me my oxygen.[00:38:00]

To keep going, but that's kind of what gives me the excitement of steppin Like, I had never been to that part. I'd been to Tulum, but I'd never been to Baja, California I'd never been to Tijuana, I'd never crossed the border on foot, but that, that really excited me And now I have a whole new purview and perspective of a different part of the world, different cultures I learned so much in Southern California About intergenerational trauma of people that have been persecuted and, you know, other things that we don't want to talk about right now, but that now I didn't know that that was going to be part of the trip, but that experience has now given me that much more information on my journey to help open up my purview that much more, so then I can make probably better informed decisions, you know, moving forward as I continue to progress in life.

than the fear? And the more [: 00:39:00

And that's what it seems like travel's really been able to do for you. The last little bit that I'd love to talk about is you've mentioned helping others gives you oxygen. So, this altruism, and you, you talk about your first interaction, truly, of, of understanding the impact of altruism, not just for your community, but also what it gives to you.

my business partner, Andrew, [: 00:40:00

It's been the most rewarding and fulfilling experience of my life to have artists that I've set out to support. Not, I didn't set out to support this one individual artist or this... other individual artists. I set out to support artists because art had a profound impact on my life going to Wynwood [00:41:00] having this experience enriched me so much culturally and experiences and culture that I wanted to once again, as you so eloquently alluded to, I wanted to create that and provide that for my community.

So the fact that I've been able to do that, and the fact that by doing what I want to do what I set out to do on my own terms, The fact that that's been able to change people's lives, help people meet their spouses and partners, start new businesses, you know, do things they never thought they would do, has really provided more ROI for me in terms of enrichment of food, fruit for my soul than, than anything else.

, I mean, I never would have [: 00:42:00

I love that. If you. Are a good authentic genuine person and you're doing things with the right intention and the right purpose That you know, it might not come back to you immediately It might take a little while to boomerang its way back to you But hopefully, you know the law of average is the way things balance out in the world.

re people's lives than, than [: 00:43:00

All by me seeing an article in the new Tropic about this guy dynamo that. Started a club to help people become millionaires by the age that they're 35, if that's what their goal was. And me reaching out to him saying, hey, could you bring this up to Fort Lauderdale? Him saying yes, one of the few people I ever reached out to in Miami that said yes about bringing their Miami thing up to Fort Lauderdale.

Oh wow. And just the, how that all kind of developed organically and has just yielded some of my best friendships, some of the best experiences in my life. With people from various different backgrounds, walks of life, like, I just, if you would have asked me seven years ago, eight years ago, would we be sitting here having this conversation, would I be telling you this, coming off a plane from friggin LAX?

with your mission, and your [: 00:44:00

And it unfolds. And the very, very last thing that I'll, I'll close with is this quote, the last quote that I saw in your book that I think can resonate with everyone was, the best things that didn't happen to me was probably the best thing to happen to me. And I think that like just totally rounds out the whole conversation of Not everything's going to go to plan.

That's especially true when you travel. That's especially true when you launch new initiatives that your area, your city has never seen before. And you have to trust that, while yes, it might be disappointing when things don't go the way they're supposed to or the way that you wanted it to, you have to trust that the reroute is bigger than what you can imagine.

And I think that is What we're seeing now is you hold, he's holding the physical copy of his Labor of Love of his book, Learning to Choose, in his hand. So I'm just gonna give you these last, like, few moments before we end with quick rapid fire questions that I end every episode with. So just like last...

all means. I'm an open book. [: 00:45:00

I did just want to share just one of the learning lesson sections because this is this book's not I mean It is a story of some of my life, but it's more the learning lessons So each chapter ends with questions that I pose back on the reader And this one I'm just to give you some context and a little preview This chapter was about learning to choose helping others and the learning lessons were have you ever done a random act of kindness?

to change their life, their [: 00:46:00

And that's a true story. Boom. There it is. Let's rapid fire. Alright, rapid fire. Number one. If you could only go back to one country, or city, or place, for the rest of your life, just one place, where would it be, and why? Now, Greece. I mean, there's just so much to explore. The culture, the food, the land. And the slow living way of life.

Close second, I would like to explore more Turkey, but that's a far second. Greece is kind of like a little bit of a cheater, because there's like hundreds of islands to explore. So you're like, I could visit a new island every month and still not go everywhere. So I love that answer, because you got all the different, all the different geographical locations in that one.

Number two is, what's number one on your bucket list right now?

more philanthropy and giving [: 00:47:00

Love it. Number three is, what is the biggest lesson, life lesson that you've learned while traveling? Don't drink the water.

That is a really good one, though. To be, I guess, to be, really to be open minded to new possibilities and new different ways of life and like, You know, trying things that you would never try to before. For some reason, like, my inhibitions go down so much when I travel. And I'm like, sure, I'll do this thing that I would never do at home.

place, some people just were [: 00:48:00

And just to remember that, you know, common thread that connects us is we are all human. Yeah, I think that's so beautiful. It just, opens up your mind and your heart to compassion. And just knowing that just because you might not eat the same foods or pray the same way that, you know, we all are the same.

We all are united. So the last one is, what is one piece of advice you'd give to an aspiring explorer?

Well, the best piece of advice that Juan ever gave me that I seem to find myself mentioning more often than not is, you can't be everything to everyone. That applies in a lot of situations, not necessarily this question, but to an explorer. I'm not going to say something cliche like don't take the road less traveled, like no, actually don't take the road less traveled.

ad that's traveled and safe. [: 00:49:00

As I outlined in the book, beautiful things lie outside your comfort zone. So just at least be willing to, float in the Dead Sea if you're in Israel. Yeah. Yeah, say yes. Absolutely. Well, thank you so much for joining me today. I think our listeners are going to be so stoked to hear from you and hopefully running to go grab your book.

the flip side. Yes, Portugal: 2024

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